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- "ARMINIC.com" از anything goes with emma chamberlain توسط ARMINIC.com. منتشرشده: 2024. ترک 103. سبک: Podcast.
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Today we’re talking about something that many think is not sexy. Okay, parenting. This is something that’s particularly interesting to me because I’m somebody who wants to have kids. I do. I want to have kids. That’s sort of a goal of mine, is to have children and try to make them good people so that they can spread love through the world for the next generation. That’s inspiring to me. Snooze fest. Yeah, whatever. So, as I’m vaguely approaching this time of my life, I’m thinking about parenting. I’m thinking about what being a good parent is. I’m thinking about how I should be preparing myself to be a parent one day. How can I start now? And that’s why I’m so excited to be talking to Dr. Elisa Pressman today. She is a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and healthcare providers who care for them. Elisa is also the host of the hit podcast raising good Humans. She has two teenagers, so she’s in the thick of it when it comes to parenting anyway. And her first book is coming out January 2024, and it’s called the five Principles of parenting, your essential guide to raising good humans. Parenting is a topic that you could truly talk about it forever, but we’re going to scratch the surface today and start thinking about parenting. So I introduce to you, Dr. Presman. This episode of Anything goes is presented by the Sims. Ready to spark something? Download the Sims four and play for free. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. With Squarespace, you can do much more than build a website. You can set up your own online store. It doesn’t matter what you sell. Physical goods, digital products, services. Squarespace has everything you need to start selling online. You can even sell custom merch. Just design it. Production, inventory, and shipping are all handled for you. And with Squarespace’s asset library, you can upload, organize, and access your content all in one place. To get started, head to squarespace.com Emma for a free trial. And when you’re ready to launch, use the offer code Emma to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Netflix’s new competition series the Trust. It’s the ultimate test of human nature, when eleven strangers are offered a quarter million dollars and a choice to share the money equally or vote each other out to take more for themselves. What would you choose? Find out if greed is greater than good. The trust, a game of greed, is now streaming only on Netflix. Do you think parenting comes intuitively? Is it just like a human thing to parent? Or do you think that it’s something that in order to be good at, you kind of need to research a little bit. You kind of need to ask the older and wiser in your life. I’m curious how much of it is instinctual and how much of it is learned. I mean, you don’t waste time. I don’t waste time. Okay. We’re jumping right in. I have thought about this quite a bit, and I land in two different places. One is, of course, some of this is just instinct, and it’s like our natural way of developing and taking care of our young. And even if you didn’t birth an infant, if you’re the person in charge of that infant, things kick in. But part of the problem is that some of the things that kick in are instinct. They just might be leading you down a path that you don’t mean to be going on because you go to the place that your childhood experience brings you to. And so for some people, instinct is awesome. And for other people, instinct, it’s like people that you’re attracted to. Does your gut lead you to someone that says, this is safe, but actually safety for you is a memory of an unsafe home. Right. So is there instinct? Yes. And also, one of the biggest predictors of a positive attachment relationship with your child is to have come to terms with your own experience in that relationship in your early years. So you have to be reflective. Yeah. And so I do think that it’s nice to find people that you feel like safe, trusting that they have. You just look at them and you just think, and it could be your mother. It could be just somebody that you’re like. I really like the relationship that you’ve developed with your child. Tell me a little bit about that. So that didn’t really answer your question, but it’s a little bit about, no, it did. Well, I also think, too, what works for one parent is not going to work for the next. Do you think that the philosophy on parenting is consistent, just in general, for raising all kids, or does one piece of advice not fit all? For sure, one piece of advice does not fit all. And I think your ears should always perk up if somebody sounds like it’s a religion, like parenting is a religion. I noticed that. Right? Like what? It’s so not. And I think that that’s a red flag. Like, anytime where you’re going to be a robotic parent because you have so much. Here are all the rigid scripts and all the ways that you should be, because of course it’s different. It’s different between kids, right? Like, you have one kid with one temperament, it’s going to be different. But I do think there’s an overall parenting approach where we have research that suggests there’s, like, one that’s a little bit better and it’s how you interpret it that will be different. So there are three styles that people look at in the research. There’s four. One is neglect. That is, obviously, we wouldn’t be here, but the three styles are authoritative, authoritarian and permissive. And it’s not like we all fit into exact categories. So the way it’s looked at is you look at both. Sensitivity, like the connection, the relationship, the paying attention to the individual child and the other side of it, which is what’s called demandingness. But really, you can think of it as like, boundaries, limits, control and authoritative. Parents are kind of balanced on both fronts. They’re both sensitive, but they also have really appropriate boundaries, clear limits, like, you know what to expect. And that gives a sense of safety emotionally and a sense of safety physically. And it gives you the freedom to be who you are. Then there’s the other side of each extreme. The permissive is super sensitive, loving, delicious, amazing, so hard to give boundaries and limits because those parents typically feel so uncomfortable with their children’s discomfort from having a limit that they bend in whatever direction they need to to make them happy. And in doing so, this is typical. It’s not always, but typically those kids end up more anxious and more unhappy because you can’t always. Well, they don’t ever rock. Yeah. You don’t feel centered in the same way, but you have a connection, and that’s wonderful. On the other side of it, look at kids whose parents don’t give the sensitivity. They’re like, it’s my way or the highway, because I said so. That’s authoritarian. And those kids tend to just lie to their parents more because the rules are so rigid that they become, like, great liars. So if you know anybody who had really strict, like my ex husband’s parents were so strict and they thought he was so perfect, he was crawling out the fire escape, going out, setting the alarm, like, doing everything that you could do, and they still have no idea, but on the other side of it, so the relationship isn’t strong. So you kind of have to decide as a parent, like, well, what am I looking for? And then also, what outcomes do I want for my child? And like you said, it’s going to be different. What I think of as what I’m hoping for for my kids is going to be presumably different than what you’re hoping for, although I’m sure there’s like a baseline of some malarity. Totally. So I would say that’s the thing that always you could lean on, is all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not like you could feel and be exactly who you are. I’m still going to give Give you boundaries and limits and that’s going to keep you safe. And the rest is like, do what you want. Yeah. How do you think the way that you were parented impacts the way that you parent your kids? I mean, that’s such a loaded question. There’s so much there, but I guess is it like you naturally will take what your parents did with you and recreate that s you? Stop the cycle? Do we have to be honest with ourselves about what type of parents we had and make an active choice to not be like them? Or can we just sort of hope it kind of goes away on its own? Yeah, I think you answered the question. In asking the question, we repeat what we know unless we’re conscious of it. Even the act of saying I don’t want to be anything like that is a conscious decision. When you come to terms with the experience that you had being parented, you’re inevitably going to be able to make better choices. And there’s just so much freedom in not just going on that autopilot. Like, I’m just going to react exactly like my mother did to me and her mother did to her, but I’m actually going to take a moment and think, why am I responding this way? And, I mean, I still default. My default setting is very similar to my parents and I love my parents and they’re amazing. But you don’t want to be like them necessarily. No. Yeah, I mean, I love them, but I don’t think anyone goes into psychology, particularly this tiny minutiae field that I’m in, which is developmental psychology, which is sort of how you come to be who you are and growth over time and emotional development. You’re not interested in that because you were around all of the normal things that we think are easy breezy because I was kind of watching just wildly interesting things. Yeah. When do you think, you know you’re ready to be a parent? Do you think that there’s a level of understanding you need to have about your own childhood, your own experience with your parents before you’re ready to go and be a parent? Or do you think that that’s something that you sort of learn as you go? Do you think that it’s ideal and responsible when possible to kind of have that sorted out beforehand in a dream world? That’s exactly what happens in reality. You’re kind of born as a parent the day your kids are born and you’re just like in process all the time. But it definitely helps to have thought through this kind of all these things that you do to think about how you came to be who you are. This inevitably makes you more ready, even if you don’t feel ready. I don’t think there’s a moment when any of us feels like, don’t you remember the first time you. Well, I have no idea. I’m going to make up a scenario that might seem ridiculous, but the first time you drew your own bath and poured a glass of wine or something, and you’re like, I’m allowed to do this. I’m not being rebellious. I’m just an adult now. That’s a weird feeling. And I think you still feel that way. You become a parent and you’re just like, wait, there’s nobody, like, no one’s checking my work. Yeah, seriously. It’s just weird. But you embody it because you have no choice. And a really incredible thing happens to your brain. So the first three years of life, biggest growth in our brains. The next spurt is adolescence. And the third one is transition to parenthood. And you can be adoptive parent. You can be dad, you could be mom. It’s not biological, but the brain actually grows the most. It’s like the third peak before the decline, but it’s so wild, and it’s like the most flexible and motivated you will ever be in your adult life. Wow. And I think that’s so cool. I’ve not heard about that. Speculate. Like, my dad told me. He was like, Emma, I am not kidding. And he doesn’t have the science to back it, right? Like, he doesn’t know about this scientifically. He just felt it. He was like, when I. The day I became your dad, my brain changed. He was right. He was like, I could have never predicted it. I couldn’t understand it. And I think the same thing happened for my mom. But my dad has really reflected on that, especially as he’s always been sort of this creative, free spirit, also maybe more inward in a way, like, more focused on himself and his own creative endeavors. But something just switched when I was born. And it’s interesting to hear that that’s actually biologically true. Yes. Isn’t that crazy? And I do think a lot of this field, you don’t have to know the science. It’s just you’re a person and you’re like, you feel it. I feel this stuff. But I think that growth is so motivating, and it’s also just exciting to know that some change really does happen in the act of the caregiving. So you don’t have to be ready. I mean, it’s great to get ready, but it’s not like I think you wake up one day. Although I do think you’re biologically. I do think there’s a moment biologically where you’re like, it’s time. I think I could have a baby. Yeah, for sure. I’m not there yet. No way. God. Pivoting to coparenting. Okay, here’s, like, an existential cris I’ve been experiencing recently. Tell me I’m kind of young to be, like, dating with this mindset, but ultimately, I want to get married and have kids. Not the hot, cold thing to do. Excuse me, everybody, but this is rebellious. This is punk. It’s fully punk now to get married and have kids. But dating through that lens is so daunting because you’re like, all right, not only am I trying to find somebody who I like for various reasons, you’re also trying to find somebody who’s going to be a good parent partner. And that was not in my mind at all for years because I was just too young. It didn’t matter. And now I’m feeling the weight of, like, I need to find somebody who checks so many boxes, and one of the most important ones being who’s going to be a good parent to my child. Because I can do everything right and be an incredible parent. Not everything right. You never do. But I can do almost everything right. I can be a really good parent. But if the other parent is not, then it’s like, this poor child now. What a bummer. What a bummer. And so I’m curious. How do you know someone’s a good partner for co parenting? Okay, so a couple of thoughts. The first is, I think it’s so cool to get to that place when love becomes more than attraction and intense excitement. And when you’re thinking about, like, wait, what is this? Long term, I think it’s a balance of, like, who compliments you? And I will say, just to ease anybody’s worry, it really only takes one caregiver that makes you feel seen and safe and secure to have positive outcomes for kids. So, like, a second one is great. Obviously, that’s even better. But you’re not screwed if you only have one. That’s really promising. I mean, I wouldn’t look for, like, a dud. We still shouldn’t settle. But you can really grow resilient, amazing humans with one loving adult in their life. But I would say that because I kind of boiled down all this research into five ideas, let’s say principles, relationship reflection, regulation, rules, and repair. Those are the five things that I think we all need to possess and have capacity for in order to do our best in relationships and with our kids. So if you’re a person for For example, who’s really good at relationship connecting, sensitivity. But you feel uncomfortable with rules. Maybe you find that partner that’s really good at that. And I think when you meet someone that is willing to be reflective and that is self regulated it enough to pause before they react. Yeah. And when you see that they set appropriate boundaries, that they have the kind of rules for themselves and others that keep everyone kind of knowing what to expect and safe. And then I think repair is everything because people in relationships and parent child relationships do not have, like, a beautiful dance. It’s messy. But when you can come back from it, and this is all in the research, it’s like how couples repair. How do you come back from a dysregulation? How do you come back from disrepair? How do you come back from a fight? I would look at that more than I would look at whether or not you fight, because interesting, that’s when you understand that there’s stability in that person or not. Somebody who has a fight with you and is like, that’s it. That doesn’t feel safe. Like, the hard feelings part can’t be a threat to the overall relationship. If it is, that person has to figure out what kind of experience they had in their early years that makes them think that any uncomfortable feelings means this is over. So I would probably, after going through all of the things that I just said, I would look at how they come back from the disconnect. When I think about, okay, what would I look for? Co parent. Right. I think what comes to mind immediately, like, the sort of easy answer is, like, someday I get along with perfectly and there’s no problems and everything’s great, and we’re just like, you know, we agree on everything and it’s like. But obviously that’s not going to happen. No, that just will not happen. So it’s sort of comforting to hear that. It’s like, who can you argue responsibly with? Totally. Yeah. When we look at attachment relationships, like secure attachment, or if you’ve heard any of that stuff, anxious attachment, I’m very anxiously attached. There you go. So when you think about that, what do we look for? We look at how, not how a child responds when a parent leaves. We look at how the child responds when the parent returns. So the relationship isn’t being judged by if you’re screaming and sad, if your parent goes away. It’s not about that. It’s really about, do you forgive them when they come back? Are you back in? Do you reconnect? That’s the sign of the healthy relationship. Interesting. And so it’s the same thing when we look at repair and adults, like, how quickly do we have capacity to come back and make a bid for reconnection? If somebody holds a grudge, if somebody makes you prove your worthiness, if somebody makes you make up for it because you really did something that hurt them, what does that mean for their capacity for repair? Because of course, you’re not going to agree on everything, especially once you have kids. Yeah. So I would pay such close attention to that because that’s the scary stuff. It’s not when you’re getting along, it’s like, how do we handle? And if you don’t handle a fight well, or maybe you don’t, right? Like, maybe you’re the one who’s like, when this happens, I’m out. Yeah. If there’s someone that you feel so safe with that you can try. The idea of not being out, of believing that actually it was just a fight, and you’re going to have learned from it. You’re going to grow and you’re going to come back together. That’s a huge positive sign. Like they’re bringing out the part of your psyche that’s the most healthy. Yeah, no biggie. No biggie. So, no biggie. Good luck, everyone. This episode is brought to you by ritual. Sometimes we think that we’re getting a gut instinct, but we’re actually not. We’re listening to our heart instead of our gut. You know, like when we want to text our ex or buy something that’s really overpriced. Listen, I can’t help you with your instincts, but I do know what can support your gut, and that’s symbiotic plus from ritual. It’s a three in one supplement with clinically studied prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics. I personally have tummy issues, and that’s why I really appreciate symbiotic plus. I really recommend ritual because they’re rigorously tested by a third party and their products are genuinely just top notch. There’s no more shame in your gut game. Symbiotic plus and ritual are here to celebrate, not hide your insides. Get 40% off your first month for a limited time@ritual.com. Anything? This offer is only available through January 31, so start ritual or add symbiotic plus to your subscription today. That’s ritual.com anything. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. With Squarespace, you can do much more than build a website. You can set up your own online store. It doesn’t matter what you sell. Physical goods, digital products, services, squarespace has everything you need to start selling online. You can even sell custom merch. Just design it. Production, inventory, and shipping are all handled for you. And with Squarespace’s asset library, you can upload, organize, and access your content all in one place. To get started, head to squarespace.com Emma for a free trial. And when you’re ready to launch, use the offer code Emma. To save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Let’s pivot to actually individual parent and child. Okay. Your podcast is called raising good humans. Give me a little spark notes. What is a good human? I mean, it’s a little bit of a trick name, because, of course, who would I be to suggest that I know what a good human is, but I know we all just know. Of course, you don’t necessarily have the same answer, but we all know that if we sat down right now and wrote down on a piece of paper for five minutes straight, what is a good human? We could each circle like a few repeated words that just come to mind. And that, to me, is the exercise that everybody should do to figure out who they are. Who do I want to be? What is my center? I think the most important thing is that you are integrated, that your insides and your outsides are feeling aligned. So that’s hard. It’s hard to believe that your insides are worthy of showing up on the outside. So if you can accomplish that kind of worthiness for your kid, I rarely see bad things come of that. But I definitely think raising good humans is about raising whatever you define as a good human. And it’s really raising good parents like, it’s really raising ourselves, because kids are going to be who they are. It’s not like we’re controlling them. It’s more like, can we water the seed that was planted to become the flower that’s going to bloom the best that it can while being that exact flower. But I try not to say what a good human is. Yeah, I get it. Because it’s a huge. Because I can’t. Well, I don’t think anyone can. There’s not one definition, but it is true that we all can feel. You feel it when someone’s a good person. Does that mean that they haven’t fucked up? No, but it is very true that it’s something that we feel. When do you think a friendship between a parent and a child is unhealthy, and when do you think it’s healthy? Okay. It could be totally defined by if the child, like, if you’re having a blast with your parents and you’re, like, having a fun day and doing all the things you want to be doing and laughing together and whatever, that’s great. The minute it’s unhealthy is when, let’s say, your mother or father turns to you and says, I need you to take care of my emotional needs. It’s like you want to feel like I, the parent, can take care of you, the child and I can take care of me. So you can share your stuff with me, but I’m not going to. It’s not that reciprocal. Like a best friend? Yes. You tell each other your problems, you share, one of you is struggling, you take care of them, the other one’s struggling. It’s very equal where it should be with a child. That would be a red flag to me if that mother has nobody to turn to except for you. And then you, as the child are like, I guess, us. I have to be the caregiver to this person’s emotions. That’s when I think friendship takes a turn. That is unhealthy. Yes, that makes total sense. So I think if the child feels comfortable to almost treat their parent like a best friend, totally fine. But then it cannot be reciprocated. It just can’t be reciprocated. Interesting, because how could you set boundaries as the adult? How could you give limits? How could you have rules in any way, shape or form that keep that child safe if you yourself are dependent on that child to come up with them? I think it would also probably be challenging as a parent to be treating your child like a best friend and then to have to go and enforce discipline in some ways. Like, how can you discipline a child that you feel like you’re best friends with? It’s uncomfortable and weird, which I can imagine then causes a parent to not discipline when they should. And speaking of that, what is the right way to discipline a child? Is it being super gentle and being like, whatever, is it being more explosive? Is it different depending on the child and what they react best to? In general, what have you seen is the best way to discipline a child? I think it goes back to the idea of the all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not. And so there are natural consequences, and logical consequences. Like, if you are angry at me because, and I didn’t let you keep your iPad and you’re yelling at me, I’m not disciplining that feeling. But I might say, like, when you throw the iPad at me, I’m now going to take that iPad and I’m going to put it away because the behavior is not acceptable. So I’m okay with you being mad at me. I’m not okay with you doing something dangerous with the iPad. So I will be removing it. And that’s a natural and logical consequence. Right. But if I said this is my rule, I’m not going to explain why, and it has nothing to do with the crime. That’s not very effective. So I think you can answer almost any discipline question with, did I honor the feeling? Like, I see you’re really angry right now. That’s allowed. And did I explain the behavior that is expected. You can’t keep the iPad on, or you can’t throw the iPad, or you can’t, whatever it is, and then enforce it. That’s what I said, and it’s predictable, and I told you about it in advance, and that’s that. And then once your child knows, like, oh, I’m allowed to have a feeling about this. And that’s the first part you connect about, like, I’m not just being a tyrant here. I see what you’re going through, and I’m so sorry about that. And also, I trust that you can get through this feeling of discomfort because that’s part of being a person. Wow. Yeah. And I’m still going to take away that iPad. And that translates to every single scenario, what party you can go to, what your bedtime is. And of course, as kids get older, you collaborate more with them. You ask them, like, in your ideal world, what time would you go to bed? You’re not going to say that to a two year old, but you would say that to a ten year old. And they might say something that feels totally unreasonable, and then you might have to say, okay, my job is to make sure that you’re safe and healthy. So I can’t say 02:00 a.m. But I see that you want a little bit later of a bedtime. Let’s try this and we’ll see how it goes. So I think every single discipline issue can be boiled down to, all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not. And I just have to be clear about it. What about the tone of voice? I was just thinking about that. Because the thing is, no, you shouldn’t yell all the time, obviously, but yelling. So I don’t yell a lot. I’m not a yelly person. Yeah, me either. If I yell, my kids would be either terrified or laughing because they would be so uncomfortable. Yeah. If their dad yells, they don’t even hear it. He’s a yeller, so they’re not scared. Okay. Yeah. So it’s actually more damaging when I yell. Yeah. So it’s like the tone ideally doesn’t. When you look at your kids, if they’re visibly scared, something’s going wrong if they get you. One side of my family is they’re very loud immigrants, and my grandparents mostly were not speaking English in front of me, and they sounded like they were screaming all the time. No one was scared of them. Right. It was their norm. That was just their norm. So you have to almost look at how people are reacting in the family. If that family’s natural cultural norm is just like, it’s fine, but at the same time, in another household, that could be really scary. So it’s super dependent. And it’s also the kids. Like, there’s a scientist that I think divides children up in this way that maybe sounds ridiculous, but it’s so beautiful to me. Orchids, dandelions and tulips. He studied orchid kids and what he wanted to know was, his name is Thomas Boise. And what he wanted to know was, why do some kids thrive in any environment like a dandelion? And some kids wither like an orchid if they’re not given the exact sunlight, water and soil? And what was really interesting is that when they are given the exact sort of support system that they need, they bloom magnificently. And who are those kids? They’re mostly artists, creative people, highly sensitive people. They’re people who might be called thin skinned, but really, you might think of it as like, you’re just more porous. Like, you feel the air more. They have higher ear temperatures. It’s a real thing being a highly sensitive person. So to me, if I’m raising a child and I’ve got one who’s more of a dandelion, who doesn’t care if I snap at them and say, like, grab your things, we’re going to be late, but I also have an orchid who is going to be like, you hate me. I’m better off just like taking a minute before I say something because they need a little bit more. It’s not coddling because they have to learn how to operate in the world. But you’re just like, slowly you’re patient because, you know, they just thrive better with a more patient tone. So I think tone of voice matters depending on even the type of child you have. If you have that orchid kid, you need to pay a little bit more attention. Interesting. It’s interesting that the answer is not, no, you should never yell. I know it’s not a dream voice, but the answer is not, you should never yell. Okay, I’m just going to say a word or a term and you tell me your thoughts. Gentle parenting. I think it means different things. I know. That’s why I was. It’s like inconsistent. Yeah, because you could say that it means all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not. That the feelings part of it, that you’re seeing your child, you’re acknowledging them, you’re paying attention, and you’re setting boundaries that could be gentle parenting. Right? But it could also be that gentle parenting is you never set boundaries. So because there’s no one definition I like to assume, the more generous interpretation is that what people mean is we’re going to take an approach that is child centered around seeing how the child feels, what’s going on, being sensitive, but that will still have boundaries and whatever. In which case, like with all things, it’s all back to the same authoritative parenting, and it’s just like mindful parenting, gentle parenting, whatever the popular phrase is, but it means the same thing We just go through different ways of talking about it. So I have a reaction to it, but my reaction is more like, it’s so unfair to parents because it’s so vague. And it might give the impression that it’s about something just soft to the point of not having boundaries. And then parents are like, am I allowed to have. A rule is I don’t like the word or the term. To me it feels completely, and this might totally be judgmental, but it’s like when I read gentle parenting, what comes to mind is like, spineless parenting, like having no backbone at all and just being like, you can do whatever. Again, that’s just my gut reaction. No, but I think that’s half the time. Right. I think you’re right. I think that is the thing that a lot of gentle parenting, and again, because it’s so vague, you could have one person who’s like, no, it’s not that. It’s alongside a spine. Right. But the fact is the name harkens the idea of, like, we’re not going to have any uncomfortable feelings. This will all be peaceful and calm and easy. And that is ridiculous and unrealistic. So I guess it’s one of those things where I would want somebody to define what they mean. Yeah. Speaking of gentle parenting, to what extent should we protect our kids from conflict and hurt and even danger at times? And how do you find a balance between kind of sending your kids out and being like, I don’t know, and overprotecting them? Because it’s like you don’t want to send them into a situation where they’re going to be in danger. But also, danger is everywhere. So you have to let your kids go at some point, but you don’t want to overprotect them. So how do you recommend finding that balance? Okay. It’s about resilience. And I think if you. Of course, we want to protect our kids. We want to protect everyone we love from having hard feelings and from experiencing difficult things. But if you don’t exercise those muscles and you get thrown into the world of finding out that things can’t always go your way, you end up weaker for it because you didn’t have the hard experience. So the way you could look at it is, is this a manageable stressor or unmanageable? Will this stretch my child so they can grow or will it break them? If it’s going to break them, I got to be there. That’s the thing. They’re not ready for that. If it’s going to stretch them. They’re going to be uncomfortable. They’re not going to like it. That builds resilience. So that’s like, what I always ask parents is. Is what you’re asking of your child something that is survivable, but you just don’t think that it’s fair to have them be uncomfortable because that is a terrible message. Yeah, right. They should know that your adult self isn’t like, oh, my God, it’s the end of the world. I’m going to tell them to give you the part in the play that you didn’t get. Yeah, that is a weird message. Or, I’m going to fix the bad grade, or I’m going to tell that kid to invite you to the birthday party. Those are normal, shitty things that we have to go through in life. And then the key with our parents is that there are people we can come to and cry and say, that felt horrible, but that they’re not going to be like, I can’t have you feeling as horrible. Let me fix it. So we have this whole need to fix the hard feelings. And then kids don’t experience those very challenges that make them resilient. What about when a child wants to go do something dangerous? They want to put themselves in danger and, you know, this is risky. This is not okay. Or like, this could be risky. It probably won’t be, but it could be. Because again, anything can be anything. Yeah, my brain can find the risk. Oh, me too. I’m terrible now that I’m an adult. It’s like everything feels like a death wish to me. I’m like, what can I do anymore? But most young people go through a phase where they want to do stuff that’s dangerous. They want to go drink with their friends when they’re underage. They want to go to this party late at night. They want to go drive around with their friends when they’re not supposed to because they only have a permit, whatever it may be. How do you create boundaries there that keep them safe? But let them explore a bit? Also let them explore a bit. Because it’s like, my parents were pretty chill about me doing whatever, and as a result, I was the least crazy out of the group. My parents were like, go and do whatever you want, but tell us what you’re doing and we’ll tell you the risks. What you do with that information is up to you. Is that a good way to handle it? Did they nail it or no? I think if it’s that until a point, right, like, there is a certain point at which the risk is too high. Yeah. And your job as a parent is to say, like, you can’t get into a car with a drunk driver. No. There are certain things that are too risky because your life is in danger, but there’s lots of risky stuff that doesn’t put your life in danger. That is just going to be a dumb idea. And those things. It is great for parents to be like, here’s the thing. If that happens, here’s the consequence, and you get to make the choice of whether or not you’re going to do it, I think, to the point of reasonable. That’s great. We all have a different level of what reasonable is, but I think that if you don’t give your child the freedom to make mistakes and stuff, they’re either going to lie to you or they’re going to be really severely underdeveloped. Yeah. There’s no good outcome if you don’t fall on your face a bunch. Yeah, I know. And that’s just so painful to know, is that you just have to sit there and witness it. Offer a glass of water and a hug. I mean, a glass of water seems very boring. I know. Maybe a little lemonade. Yeah, like, maybe we put a little lemonade in there. But it’s the idea that you can’t bubble wrap the world, which is just hard. And that’s part of our development as adults, that our loved ones can handle difficult experiences, knowing that they’re going to come out the other side, that is like, the biggest gift you can get, which you can only get from experience. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Netflix’s new competition series the trust. It’s the ultimate test of human nature. When eleven strangers are offered a quarter million dollars and a choice to share the money equally or vote each other out to take more for themselves. What would you choose? Find out if greed is greater than good. The trust, a game of greed is now streaming only on Netflix. This episode is brought to you by Betterhelp. It’s New Year’s, and you know what that means. Everybody is becoming obsessed with how to change themselves. I think it’s unfortunate because this is the time to expand on what we’re already doing. Right. I worked really hard in 2023. I became really social in 2023. And in 2024, I want to continue. I want to build on that. I want to take it to the next level. Therapy can be so helpful in improving your quality of life. Therapy teaches you positive coping skills, how to set and enforce boundaries, how to deal with the dilemmas of life. If you’re thinking of starting therapy, give betterhelp a try. It’s entirely online and designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Celebrate the progress you’ve already made. Visit betterhelp.com anything today to get 10% off your first month. That’s betterhelphelp.com anything. How do you apologize to your kid? Being a parent means making mistakes as a parent, and I really do think that it’s about, at least based on my experience, how you remedy the fuck up. At least when it comes to my relationship with my parents, if they’ve been able to apologize in a way that I truly feel is sincere, then you’re back in. Then I’m back in In sometimes. I mean, sometimes it takes some time. But I’m curious, what’s the most effective way to apologize to your child? And how do you know when an apology is warranted? In the same way that talking about a partner who’s able to repair, you’re setting the stage for your child to see that you make mistakes and that you can come back from them. So those apologies really matter so much because when you look at young kids who feel so guilty or like they just blew it or even a teenager whatever, or grown ups, and, you know, the ones who weren’t apologized to because they feel like the screw up is irreparable and they hate themselves for it. But if you have a situation where you have to apologize to your child, I think the most important thing to do is kind of, I mean, the biohack of putting your hand on your heart and just taking a breath and saying, like, I screwed up, but I’m a good mom and I’m going to make repairs. It gives you like a little moment of self compassion. Because when you apologize, I don’t want you as the parent to make your child feel like you’re just berating yourself over and over so you can be like, hey, I expect that sometimes I’m going to mess up. This was one of those times. Here’s what I did that I wish I hadn’t done. Let me know how I can make it right. And in the future, here’s what I’m going to do to do better. It could be as big as that. It could be as small as letting someone pick the movie and laughing together and you just kind of know. You just kind of got back. Yeah. But I do think that the first part of the apology has to be with yourself so that your child recognizes that it’s not the end of the world to have to apologize. Right? Yeah, that’s very true. I think maybe it can also be sort of damaging if an apology is like an entire event. Yeah. Because now you such a big deal. It’s an event and it’s not like. So maybe there is no such thing as over apologizing. I guess when I think of over apologizing, I think it’s when parents apologize for creating boundaries. Right, totally. That’s different because they didn’t need to apologize. Yeah. And they shouldn’t. Right. I think that is a really good point because it’s really hard to apologize for something where you really blew it because you have to then tell yourself what you’ve done. It’s like way easier to say I’m really sorry that you’re upset right now because you can’t go to the party. That’s like a bullshit apology. Yeah, totally. But the ones where it’s like, I just took your weak, vulnerable spot and I took advantage of it and I criticized you for something that I know you have deep shame about, that is very hard to admit because it really makes you feel shitty. Yeah. I mean, you look in the mirror and you’re like, who did this? I did this. But then we remember we’re people and we’re just going to keep being people. Yeah. Do you think if you apologize along the way that you can create a child who carries no damage from you? Or do you think that it is inevitable that your child will bring some damage with them throughout their life? Because I swear my parents were fucking amazing. Like, I really did have phenomenal parents, but I have some issues from them for sure. We all do. It’s inevitable. Yeah. I don’t think. You cannot have that. Because I look at my situation and I’m like, I don’t know how they could have done any better. They’ve apologized even for everything. Especially, like, now that I’m an adult, my parents have apologized for everything I’ve brought up. I’ve figured out all the different things that they did and how that impacted, and they were open and receptive. So open. That’s so receptive. So, like, my mom apologizes on a weekly basis to me about various things. She’s like, I just remembered this one thing I did when you were like, twelve. And I feel so bad. It was so mean. And I’m like, hey, it’s all good. And I do forgive my parents for every little thing that they’ve ever done. But I have noticed that certain things have impacted the way that I am in friendships, the way that I am in romantic relationships. And the apology doesn’t change that. Right? And so now it’s taking a whole nother. I have to go back in and now address that and unlearn that, get to the bottom of that. Because now that’s sort of become my own philosophy. That now has nothing to do with them anymore because they’ve repaired what they’ve done. The lingering effects I have to handle now it is your burden because it’s the life choices that you’re going to make. No one gets out of it. It would be boring if you just were like, squeaky boring and true. Who needs that? But it is interesting to be able to say, what are you drawn to in romantic relationships and is that aligned with what you would like to be drawn to in romantic relationships and how do you respond? And those things do come from early experiences. Yeah. Like when my parents got divorced, it rattled things a little bit. Yeah. And then now I’m very anxiously attached because I feel like I can be. The way I internalized that was I’m being put on the back burner. So then now I’m super anxiously attached because I’m like, I can just be abandoned at any point. So your place that you’ll work on is believing somebody’s there, even if they go away for a weekend or don’t want to have dinner or are grumpy about something. But then does it also, on the other side, make you feel, and I will say you’re not anxiously attached because I feel like that just what puts you in a box. It sets you up to have all relationships like that. But it does sound like your natural inclination might be to be worried that someone’s leaving. And so your challenge is to either choose people who are really comfortable making sure you feel safe, because sometimes when you have that tendency, you are attracted to people who are very. I love an avoidant man. Yeah. Like, what’s sexier to somebody with. Right. It’s terrible. And by the way, somebody who’s super, super needy would probably be so annoying for you. Yeah, I hate that too. And you would become avoidant. So it’s more like how you are in relationship to someone else. And so it’s finding the fit of someone who doesn’t bring out that part. That is actually a really phenomenal point because when I have been in situations that were much more secure or even the other person was anxious as well, it’s been like, I actually feel like I have secure attachment. It’s only when I’m with somebody who’s avoidant that then I am avoidant or I am anxious. Right. It’s like two psyches bringing out each other’s worst parts. And I think the trickiest part about that, which is a conversation for another day, but it’s not sexy to be safe. So true. And so you’re 22. How are you going to convince your body and your nervous system to be a acted to someone who is safe while at the same time that’s who you want to partner with? Yeah. Those are two really opposing things. And so growing into, especially if you bend anxious in that way Way. Growing into finding sexiness in safety is a hurdle. I know. That’s my vibe right now. I’m trying to love safety, of course. And it’s really about finding the person who brings out and who you bring out, that sense of safety and finding the sex and safety. And that’s just. I remember once someone said to me, that isn’t sexy or love, it’s anxiety. Yeah. And I was so young at the time and I was like, what? Anyway, moving right along. And then here I am, decades later. And I remember it because it’s hard not to confuse those things. But, yeah, when you can find two nervous systems that bring out a sense of ease and you don’t think of it as boring and lame, you win back to kids. By the way, that was a detour I needed right now. More on that after. But many kids feel a pressure to become what their parents envision them to be like. You should get this job, you should get married at this age, you should do this, you should do that. What are your advice for parents on how to not do that and how to let go of those expectations? And what are your advice to kids when it comes to blocking out that noise and doing what you want to do? I think for parents and people in general, the people that you love need to know you love them for who they are. Not a single bit of their accomplishments, not how they look, not how they act, but who they are inside at their core. And so if you catch yourself praising and deifying qualities that are about performance, catch yourself so that your kids know that they are loved for who they are and that it doesn’t matter that they got twelve trophies or that you aren’t invested in whether or not they end up doing this job or this college, going to this college or going to that whatever, or marrying that person. And we as the parents have to be vigilant about catching ourselves in how we praise and what we pay attention to, not just in our kids, but in other people. Because you could be really meticulous about not praising your daughter for how beautiful she is, but then walk around telling everybody else how beautiful they are and looking at all of that stuff and the values get baked in. So I think that is part of it, is just what values do you want your children to feel you value, if that’s a sentence and just checking in with what you perceive as important. And one thing that you can always do with people is do kind of a family mission statement where you kind of say, in this household, we value and you pick three things. And when your kids get to even age four, ask them what they think you value. And if there is a misalignment, it’s just information. Like, if you’re like, we value kindness, compassion and persistence, but your kids are like, I think you value hard work, performance and success. No judgment on either of those, but there’s a misalignment. So figuring out whether or not you or be honest with your kids. Yeah, it’s almost worse if you pretend that you don’t care about certain things, but you do. And then for young people, resisting looking outward for your worth, which is impossible, but it’s just a practice. It’s a practice every day of recognizing and getting the courage up, starting with your parents, because they’re the people that are not going anywhere, hopefully, of saying, this is who I am, and realizing you’re still loved as a parent. What’s the responsible way to enforce boundaries with the Internet? Because it’s such a nightmare. I mean, my parents kind of let me have free rein and, well, it served you. It ended up serving you. You did well with it. I know that’s the exception, but even with me psychologically, as much as it literally built a Weird for me, and I’m obviously beyond grateful for that. It also has given me. There’s so much damage that it’s also caused. What kind of damage do you feel like it’s caused? Well, I mean, for sure, severe body image issues throughout my whole life. I mean, since I was, like, ten. Okay. I think it makes my anxiety a lot worse. I’m already an anxious person. It definitely exacerbates depression for me, which I also already have. Or maybe those are byproducts. It could be because I’ve been on the Internet since I was so young. I’ve struggled more recently with kind of OCD, like, perfectionism in a way that’s not normal. It’s like, okay, we need to not. This is, like, too much. All from the Internet, or at least made worse by the Internet, I think. Yeah, it definitely amplifies all of our natural struggles. And for girls, of course, it’s going to be body image, depression, anxiety. That’s perfectionism. Like, you named everything. Yeah. And it’s also. We’re, like, in a post truth world now. I don’t even know what’s happening right now online. I know. And I also know what it feels like. I will sit for, certainly recently, for so long. I don’t know how time has gone by, and I’m just watching things, and I can feel my entire body is just, like, basically shaking. And it’s so bad, too. I know. And I think about, like, young nervous systems. So, basically, I think because it’s the kind of addictive, tricky mechanism, we have to create certain boundaries. Like, I do not allow electronics past ten in bedrooms, no matter what. And that’s not an argument we ever have, because this is me protecting you from what is a reasonable want, which is to just be able to be up all night, scrolling with your friends, doing whatever. I can’t imagine how you could have the self control with a teenage brain. It’s all gas, no brakes. I’m there as a support system for that. Unless we’re on vacation. Yeah, but then I think it depends on the individual. I think you have to look and see. How is your particular teenager managing social media? What does their algorithm look like? If their algorithm is like a bunch of puppies and bunies doing funny things, I’m not worried about it. Yeah, so I think you can tell by just checking in and you’re paying the bills for the most part. So that can be an agreement. It’s not a sneaky thing. It’s like, look, I have to know your passwords. I’m not going to just spy. I’m allowed to, but I’m not doing that for fun. I’m going to check in every once in a while as a responsible parent. If things are looking like there’s a problem, we’ll figure out a solution. Yeah, if things are looking fine, but meal time and sleep time, to me, are sacred from screens, I think that’s reasonable because I also think you can’t. I mean, again, it’s like when the rules are too strict, it’s just the kids end up rebelling. And I think with the phone, it’s like they’re going to feel the effects of being on it too much. Obviously taking the phone away altogether, not giving your kid a phone, you can’t do that socially at this point, they would have no social life. It’s terrible. So it’s like you can’t not give them the phone at all. But also they will 100% surely have a negative psychological effect. There will be a negative effect if they are overdoing it. And it’s like they will feel that. And I think if you can warn them of that, I guess that’s the best you can do. Yeah. There’s certain things that are just non negotiable and then the rest is checking in with, how is this feeling for you? And usually if you’re pointing it out but you’re not accusatory, they can come up with their own realization, but they just might need help. I feel like a lot of teenagers find relief in just being forced to have space from all of that. Totally. To wrap this up, what is your most unexpected piece of advice for parents? Like, a piece of advice that they’d be like, oh, really? What do you think is sort of a curveball, if you can think of one? I think a curveball is. This is so specific and random. But not arguing with your kids to convince them out of their feelings. Like, if they feel ugly telling them why they’re beautiful, or if they feel scared telling them why they shouldn’t be scared, I think that that is a very natural thing to want to do, but not what is recommended. Wow. See, that is exactly what. Was that the kind of curveball? Yes. Because what I think is being brought to my attention for the first time in this conversation is how it’s nobody else’s place to get in the way of what someone’s feeling. And I’ve recently been handling my emotions differently personally, just on a personal level, where I’m just letting myself feel things fully, feel so sad, so upset, so blah, blah, blah. And I just sit in it and I’m not trying to change it. Yeah. And what’s been so interesting about it is when I just let myself sit in it, when I come out the other side, I feel truly resolved. Right? And my entire life before that, it was like every time I’d feel uncomfortable, I’d just try to find a way to feel comfortable, feel comfortable again. And now I’m like, no, I’m just going to sit in it and I’m just going to see what happens. Knowing that at some point it will end. It always does. It always does. Like, you’ve got to believe that. How will you believe it until you go through it? But that’s a journey that somebody has to go on as an individual. And so when somebody comes in and sort of, it’s almost unfair in some ways to come in and say, no, you don’t feel that way. You don’t feel that way. You should be feeling this way. And here’s why. Because you’re such a great student and everything’s going so well for you, it’s like, don’t take away my ability to just be sad right now and just whatever. And I think that that’s so huge with parenting. But also across the board in life, even with how you parent yourself as an adult, it’s like you have to learn to sit with every emotion and figure out how you manage it. But I think when it comes to parenting, it’s like, what do you say when your child is upset instead of saying like, oh, don’t feel this way? Right. Do you validate without changing? If that’s what it is? Okay. Like, you mirror, you almost say back to them what it sounds like. Let me get this straight. It sounds like you feel really unloved or ugly or scared or whatever. Is there any way I can be helpful? Is a totally reasonable question. But first you have to acknowledge it and let them know. Otherwise, the other risk is that they then have to either convince you so it gets bigger. Like, no. Here are the all. It’s like, try to tell somebody who’s afraid of flying all the reasonable statistics about why they shouldn’t be afraid of flying. A person afraid of flying is going to be like, I’ll one up you on each one of those things with whatever. You can’t argue with anxiety. Yes, an anxious person is going to outwin that argument. A kid feeling a feeling is going to have to lie about their feeling or feel like they can’t trust their own feelings unless you validate them and let them Them, have them. And I just think it’s important for them to know you can handle it. And it’s hard. It’s really hard. I mess this up all the time. But when you can sit there and not feel total, just devastation, your child’s experience you’re showing them can handle it. And who wants to? Even if you think about friends, who do you want to talk to about your troubles or your sadness? Is it the one who’s trying to convince you out of it? Or is it the one who’s just like, let this shit out? You are so valid. And then eventually, let’s take off our sweatpants, get outside and do something that feels good. But first, I’m going to let you indulge in this feeling. I’m not going to make you feel ashamed of it. Let’s just do it. Let’s just be there. Those are the people that you’re calling on because they can handle it. Absolutely true. Amen. Amen. Thank you for coming on. Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. This was so phenomenal. You’re so wonderful. Like, what a thoughtful, cool, awesome. I want to interview you. You should come on, Mike. Podcast. Yes. I’ve never had a person who’s not that will be like, I would love that because I could ask you so many questions. I would adore that. Okay. I can’t wait.
